Let's be clear .... these are ALL secondhand vans.
They are priced between £8000 and £13000
They do move vans between their Reading, Wimborne, Liecester and Northampton sites ....... I have no problem with that.
The vans I speak of have been at the same site for at least 4 months - not labelled as 'New Arrival' until this last week!!
The change in price by £100 is also an attempt to deceive .... and this is my point, they are trying to deceive potential buyers by lieing.
It is blatant - and unethical in my opinion.
Yes, a buyer should ignore all signs and buy on condition and pay a fair price ..... but, it would worry me somewhat if the dealer was shown to be capable of deceit.
Maybe I'm old fashioned? But I believe in telling the truth and not misleading people for ones own personal profit ...... where did honesty get lost?
Now that is interesting. You did not mention that these were second hand vans, hence my comment "If they are new". On this basis they do have questions to answer.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
Phil ..... I wouldn't worry about NEW Caravan Stock (as in brand new Caravans).
No, these are secondhand vans taken in over 4 months ago ..... and this week being labelled as 'New Arrival' - which is extremely unethical and deceitful. The salesmen know what they are doing, deceiving.
In any situation like this it would be up to a judge in a court of law to decide what was a reasonable time to list something as a new arrival and I would suspect that if they had a van in for four months and is advertising it as a new arrival then this would not be resonable and therefore could be misrepresentation. Certainly I would speak to consumer direct and give them examples.
MrRee, you sound surprised about what the dealer is doing. What they are doing is no better or worse than what used car salesmen have been doing since 'Arfur Daley' was a boy!
These people are in business to make money out of the likes of you and me and like most tradesmen will represent their products and services by whatever means necessary to make a sale and a profit. How many people everyday receive stuff that they bought on Ebay and it is not quite what they expected? When it comes down to it if what you see is not value for money then avoid it. A product is only worth what someone will pay for it. If a buyer is looking for a caravan, regardless of the 'New Arrival' sign on it, if it is a heap of jaded overpriced c**p then they will not, or rather should not buy it. There is a lot of competition out there so move on to another dealer.
Can't wait till I get into work and tell everyone that a guy working in cutting edge space age electronics expected caravan dealers to be honest and ethical!! Sorry... simply couldn't resist!
Or to put into legals Jeep..............you can't mislead in a way that is unfair to consumers.
If you refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading/Trading Standards, under theConsumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 it has to consider, not just the notice “new arrivals”, but the surrounding circumstances. It is also legally obliged to consider whether a misleading notice is unfair, that is, is it likely to cause your average consumer to be misled into taking a different decision about the caravan because of the notice. Whilst this notice concerns second hand caravans the condition of the caravans, and other factors, are important factor in answering that question. As jeep succinctly put it "if it is a heap of jaded overpriced c**p".
Then there are two other issues to consider
1.Is the notice indicating that these are “new” arrivals rather than “second hand” arrivals, or
2.Does the dealer really mean that they are “newly” or “recently” arrived (as defined by the OED)
Taking issue 1 – The first strand of the legals is that the notice is clearly misleading as they are not new but second hand.Moving to the second strand, will your average punter be misled?So, are the caravans clearly second hand? Many a caravanner comes on here indicating that they have just bought a “new to us” caravan which is immaculate; Just like new in fact. Experienced caravanners can spot a second hand van so, in my opinion would not be misled in which case the notice is not an unfair business practice under the Regulations. However, the novice purchaser could be misled into believing that an immaculate second hand caravan is new. Shopping around for a new van they know the price and come along to your Dealer and see these much lower prices they could be fooled into believing that they are heavily discounted prices for a new van and could so easily be misled and “take a different decision about the caravan because of the notice”, namely to buy it thinking that it is a bargain for a new van. This scenario could very well lead to the OFT or Trading Standards issuing a compliance notice to have the notices removed.
However, if they are clearly second hand, your average consumer would not be misled.A two year old caravan on a forecourt for four months is still a two year old caravan. Is the date of first registration of the van displayed in the caravan window, for example? They usually are. Does the Dealer show the CRiS documents to buyers before they get their cheque books out? All of these surrounding circumstances could lead the OFT/Trading Standards to take no action and the signs remain. The buyer does not rely exclusively on the notice to reach a decision about buying
Taking issue 2 – What are “new arrivals”? A four month old baby is still new. When we buy goods and have them for four months and they break down do we not go back to the seller and complain that something new should not break down?Does your average caravannergo for the second hand van that has just arrived at the dealers and ignore those that have been there for four+ months? We may agree that four months is not newly arrived but, as I say, the enforcing authorities do not stop at “the advert is misleading”. They have to go a stage further, under the Regulations, and ask “Does this practice cause, or is it likely to cause, your average consumerto take a different decision about the caravans?”. Do buyers just come into the dealer only if vans are fresh in? Personally I doubt it. Is there any market research that shows that caravanners go for the new arrivals only? The OP has suggested that a van that arrived in the last two weeks is a new arrival. The Dealer clearly considers that up to four months is still a new arrival. The boundary line between a new and old arrival is somewhere, but where? I am not sure that there is such a hard and fast rule that we can say that four months is old. That level of uncertainty, leads me to be inclined to consider that the practice is misleading but not unfair. The OFT/Trading Standards cannot take action if they conclude that it is not unfair or are doubtful that it is unfair.
So, on issue 1 it may be wrong depending upon the surrounding circumstances. On issue 2 it is not wrong, in my view.
Phil
------------- If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe
I could understand a sign telling anyone viewing an item that hadn't been cleaned since arriving that it was awaiting preparation but I see no point in telling anyone it's a new arrival. If I go looking at vehicles or Caravans & see a dirty one I look for the "awaiting preparation" notice which indicates they've just taken it into stock, otherwise I don't worry how long the dealer's had it in stock.
i see where your going with this just how long does something need to be stood before it is not classed as "newly arrived" well that could be anything from weeks to months depending on how often stock is renewed. i think that the sign should be changed and as for the price well if like a car it will have a book price which is the value that model and the condition it is in worth. all i could suggest is have you taken it up with the dealer? it may be a case of having so much stock that he may of lost track of the sign that is in it. also it is not mis leading to put newly arrived on something that has come in new to there stock had they been advertising a secondhand product as "new" then that is against the law. hope that this has not put you off buying from this dealer but is a good haggling point for you to get a discount!
------------- even caravan owners need loving so please be patient when behind me! do forgive me for driving so close to the front of your car!!
Most people would guess that a caravan which has been stuck around for 4 months and not sold, either:-
1. Has something wrong with it
2. Is overpriced
3. Both of the above
A 'New Arrival' fools a purchaser into thinking that the van has just arrived and therefore there may not be much room for movement on the price .... indeed, the salesman may say, "No Discount, Just Arrived, expected to sell quickly" .... now, that's unethical and misleading.
Indeed, one of the vans concerned even had a sign saying "Awaiting Preparation" which is laughable as it was valeted before sale 4 months ago!!
Unethical - regardless of what the legals say .... but I note the legals above, thanks.
Quote: Originally posted by MrRee on 10/6/2012
A 'New Arrival' fools a purchaser into thinking that the van has just arrived and therefore there may not be much room for movement on the price .... indeed, the salesman may say, "No Discount, Just Arrived, expected to sell quickly" .... now, that's unethical and misleading.
Yes but it won't affect the actual selling price, every caravan there has a bottom line, decided beforehand, its up to the potential buyer to get the salesman down to that price. If you want find the bottom line, you make your offer & let the salesman make his. If thats no good then tell him you are leaving. If you don't get a better price from him then that is his bottom line & the choice is yours whether you pay it or not.
A dealer will not continually reduce the price of stock that will not shift, that damages the retail market, he would rather dispose of it at auction or ebay than sell it on his forecourt for same low price.
I ubderstand your frustration Mr Ree, I'm sure you are very dissapointed in , who you thought were trust worthy dealers. I would be thinking if this is how they trade, what other antics are they up to and can I trust them again.
I believe as we are in desperate times most will try anything to drum up business and the salesmen are probably rewarded for coming up with new ideas for more sales, and this is the brain child of one of them.
With regard to older caravans being for sale in a poor state, a salesman once told me that they always keep a few 'older' vans that they know won't sell. When the likes of you or me go looking for a used van and we see the state of the ones there, we are led towards the thinking that if we stretch a little bit more we could get a shiney new one. And so it goes on.
I know about Sales Techniques, about Salesmen, and how to do a deal.
What may have left me behind is this change in ethical behaviour - what's wrong with being honest (yes, yes, I know that Salesmen are by their very nature, dishonest) ..... but, Caravan people are a close knit bunch (whereas everyone needs a car, for example) ... so, a Dealer who lies and cheats is one for whom the market will shrink rather rapidly.
The Caravan Company pay for big adverts, claim to be the biggest dealer in secondhand caravans ...... they should also stand above the rest in moral standards in my humble opinion.
Does it matter?, you buy on value for money surly.. its like the "no vat today" offers by some obviously vat registered companies, no they aren't its the price inc vat has been reduced.
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Topic: This can`t be right?
