Just got back from an evening with some good friends who are also caravanners. They have a twin axle Crusader which they tow with a 4x4
They have just returned from a three week touring holiday to the South of France and asked showed me the bathroom in the van as the cant work out why after having the van for about 5 years, they have some wall screws undone and one fell out, some cracking around the sink screw and cracking around one of the screws on the wheel arch.
I have commented on previous posts that I suspect this is caused by vibration due to an unbalanced wheel? Before he told me where the damage was, I asked him if the bathroom was over the axle and it was.
I find it really annoying that manufacturers don't seem to acknowledge the importance of wheel balancing and automatically balance them before leaving the factories and that dealers don't check the wheel balances when they go in for service?
I also wonder if an unbalanced wheel causing severe vibration has anything to do with why we have to regularly check our torque on wheel nuts regularly?
I have experienced misaligned catches. Screws undoing and wheel arch cracking before and its always above or near the axle, from now on when I purchase a new or used van I am going to insist the wheels are balanced prior to delivery and checked on each service for balance.
If we all started insisting on this perhaps the industry would start doing this automatically, as I said only a theory, but we most of us knows what it feels like at 60 mph when a front wheel has shot a weight on the car, imagine that vibration on a caravan!
Hi Tony, I bought a new Elddis last year and there were no weights , when I queried it they told me it was not done at factory, I queried it with both major clubs and they told me it is not normally done as there is no legislation saying it has to, if Bailey has started doing it or any other manufacturers them about time, but if it is the case then those that have started doing it, have obiously realised it should be done and should be asking their dealers to balance wheels when in for service or contacting owners accordingly.
Ive never had that the last few years ive had my twin.I read that when towing like i was,with a 4x4..the shocks on them are very hard,thus all the vibrations go through the "A"frame and can cause it to crack.I had fitted at the time a shock link on the towball like the pic below.Maybe its vibration through the "A"frame thats causing the trouble ?
If Bailey has started doing it - would this have anything to do with the wheel nuts coming loose and subsequent recall of vans a while back. - Just a thought.
------------- A barman is just a pharmacist
with a limited inventory
I`ve always balanced my caravan wheels as I worked in the motor trade [panel beater] for 51 years, now retired I have had my own wheel balancer for about 20 years and always rebalance when refitting after being taken off for the winter
Manufacturers always sweep this issue under the carpet and the reason is that because by law we are not allowed to travel in the caravan then caravanners don't actually have any proof whatsoever of how severe the unbalanced wheels can be. Because there is no evidence of any unbalanced wheels they don't consider it a problem because everyone is absolutely blind to this ongoing problem. There is evidence out there but only after people have encountered problems and decided to have their caravan wheels balanced. Obviously, if you purchase a caravan that is several years old that has continued to have unbalanced wheels then certain damage may have already been done. When I purchased my caravan I noticed that several screws had come slightly loose at the washroom door and several cupboard hinges and this was evidence that continued wheel bounce had been the culprit. Before using the caravan I had 2 new Avon tyres fitted and asked if balancing was included in the price to which it wasn't but requested that they be balanced for the sake of an extra fiver. Although the fitter said that they don't normally balance caravan wheels I asked him the reason why. His answer was that because they don't balance the tyres from new there is no reason why they should be on replacement tyres. I explained the negative attitude on this issue by both the caravan industry and tyre fitters alike and said that if we were allowed to travel in our brand new caravans we may well be suprised just how uncomfortable it actually is and if just two wheels on our towing vehicles were not balanced we would have the supporting eveidence and the right to complain. The root cause of the problem is that the single and twin axle Alko chassis' are exported from Germany with wheels and tyres already fitted so the cost to remove each wheel and take it to a tyre fitter for balancing would be time consuming and not cost effective either as it would severely affect the production line in the process. It's not the final answer to the problem so the manufacturers should request that the supplier have all tyres are balanced prior to fitting and dispatched to Britain even if it affects the final purchase price because unbalanced wheels can lead to not only creating havoc inside the caravan but also an unstable outfit on the road which has been previously mentioned in the Camping & Caravanning magazine forum. I totally agree with your comments but whilst the issue is still constantly being ignored I advise that every caravan owner to have their tyres balanced as it's worth the extra few quid to avoid any unnecessary violent shaking leading to other costly problems in the future.
I thought the chassis were exported in component parts and assembled in the factory they were at bailey caravans when our van was built 6 years ago we've had it from new the wheels haven't been balenced not had any problems towing or things working loose we must just be lucky I suppose , thinking about it I've towed all sorts of trailers over the years none have had the wheels balenced can't say it's been a problem The rear wheels on my work van are un balenced been like that for 20000 miles again no problems I suppose balancing caravan wheels might improve the ride but it's not the great panacea for all problems associated with poor maintenance and build quality
Hi Phil76, dont really agree with you for few reasons, I had a brand new Bailey Pageant Provence in June 2005. After our trip to Scotland in it I found screws were coming loose in the washroom, and again when I took it to the Dordogne. I then had a Crusader Twin axle and after our second year of having it and taking it to South of France, I had the slide out cupboard catches not meeting and I had to put an infil in and my wheel arch mastic had opened up (after 12 months). Then my friend see my opening post has just experienced after 5 years of owning his twin axle, taking his van to South of France and washroom screws coming out and splitting round the sink. The common denominator here is long distance motorway trips over a day or two.
You mentioned various trailers you have had over a number of years but there is not much to damage on a trailer. Your work van that you mentioned that dont have balanced rear wheels? (but have you taken your work van on a motorway or autoroute for 500 to 800 miles over two days full of lightweight fitted furniture?
A caravan's MTPLM on avearge weighs 1200 to 1800 Kgs and is full of lightweight construction furniture, if as I am convinced a wheel gets out of balance the vibration over long motorway distances of touring for 1 - 2 days each way would be hammering the cabinetry and mouldings constantly hour after hour for hours if on a long motorway run.
We have all had an out of balance car wheel in the past and one thing that is noticable is that at lower normal type road speeds you dont notice it on a car, take the car up to say 50+ and the vibration / wobble starts if the wheel is out of balance.
One last point Phil, why do we have to check the torque on the wheel nuts regularly on our caravans (just as I have done this weekend). When my car comes out of service I dont have to check the torque. In summary we know out of balance wheels cause vibration and unless proved otherwise I still believe vibration causes things to work loose and for the sake of a few quid why take the chance?
Dave I for one agree with what you are saying. However if you are going into the .nth degree then to overcome all out of balance vibration. Then surely you need to balance the wheel on the axle dynamically. After all the hub is cast and then machined this must be unbalanced.
------------- A barman is just a pharmacist
with a limited inventory
Hi Chalkie, I would agree with you here but in reality, even if manufacturers installed the right equipment to do this, it would be unlikely dealers would?
On a car, it is generally understood that to fine balance a high performance car it is better to do it on the car, but in reality they are done off the car in mopst situations.
I think balancing the wheels even in the normal 'off the axle' way, would be far better than not a all. In fact it would not suprise me at all if it vastly reduced problems on caravans. we can't even be sure that in really bad vibration situtions with more than one wheel out of balance that it could potentially cause sealant cracking and opening joints causing water ingress, paticularly in an older van with sealant that has lost some of its flexibilty?
Hi DAVE 11 I don't disagree that wheel balancing is a good thing but to say that it is the root cause of screws fittings etc working loose is over egging the pudding to say the least When I said trailers I included caravans folding campers trailer tents twin axel car transporters ( towing racing cars here and around Europe at speeds far higher than is good for the underwear) yes I have taken my van on the motorway and done many thousands of miles at motorway speeds. The tightness of caravan wheels doesn't need checking any more or less than any other wheel if a wheel is fitted correctly then it will not come loose Again I will say I am not against balancing caravan wheels and that out of balance can contribute in some way but alot of the problems with fittings working loose etc are down to flexing of the bodywork whilst towing on our well maintained roads and poor construction teqniques at the factory
Hi Phil 76 goods points and I agree with the points you make.
However does this not raise additional concerns in that as the construction of the furniture and fittings seem to be getting lighter each year, the problems of flexing helped by vibration or not will just increase the problems of screws coming loose and misaligned cabinets and cupboard catches?
If wheel vibration on out of balance wheels is causing or making matters worse, then we should all start insisting from our dealers tbey are balance prior to delivery, this would promote them to tell the manufacturers to do it.
One last point Phil which doesn't really get answered in your post and nobody seems to be able to give a definitive answer, is that if unbalanced wheels are not a major contributory factor to severe vibration, then what makes it necessary to have to re torque your wheels after they have been removed for a service, it can't be said they have not been fitted correctly as the dealer will know how to fit them. Also they have to be regularly checked ideally before each use? We often hear reports of caravan wheels coming off. Motor homes don't keep checking wheel torques , neither do cars. Cars and motor homes are however balanced, one might say cars are balanced because of possible discs brakes that could cause vibration, this in my view is also not an answer as car manufacturers also balance rear wheels even in the days when rear drum brakes were being used.
If car manufacturers see fit to balance all wheels due to passenger comfort that is still saying the same.
I have (touch wood) never lost a wheel but reading in caravan press and posts on forums many have, I have a real bee in my bonnet that the reasons and causes for this are being left unchallenged and we should, along with the clubs start asking why do wheels fall off caravans and furniture start opening, screws start falling out and get the manufacturers to sort these issues.
Amazing family weekend with old steam engines, classic car displays, market stalls, and full catering and bar. And camping on site - Save £25 by booking in advance.
Topic: Still Believe My Theory is right
