Idiots and 4 x 4s are two very separate issues.Idiots are idiots in Reliant Robins. Some 4 x 4s are bought for very good reason - others are just free choice. I think it is that simple. I am in the "good reason" category. Mine is a work horse and tow car . I much prefer a less cumbersome vehicle for other use.
I have a 4x4 for the reasons given above. 85% etc etc. I have been caravanning for many years and have NEVER seen an overturned caravan behind any 4x4! Yet alone an overturned 4x4. As for towing at 60mph with any properly loaded van..why not? On the motorways that is!
Quote: Originally posted by Manty on 19/8/2013
I have a 4x4 for the reasons given above. 85% etc etc. I have been caravanning for many years and have NEVER seen an overturned caravan behind any 4x4! Yet alone an overturned 4x4. As for towing at 60mph with any properly loaded van..why not? On the motorways that is!
A well loaded caravan pulled by a well loaded 4X4 and driven by a normal careful owner who thinks is exactly the same proposition as the same sort of outfit towed by a saloon car or estate. It is when people move outside those parameters that problems happen. As to 60mph there is nothing at al wrong with travelling at that speed, your speed is a matter of choice, But someone who suggests that someone who chooses to travel at that speed because overtaking vehicles cause him problems and suggests that anyone who does not travel at that speed is put simply wrong.
You chose a 4X4 to balance the weights, great. But some people tow with a 4X4 because they have got a message that towing with such a vehicle is necessarily safer than anything else and this is simply incorrect. In 50 years of driving I have only ever seen two overturned caravans both towed by large 4X4s this is coincidence and I know it. My original question was "is this You " as I was concerned that the people got home safely and that they understood why things had gone wrong, it is the question my son asks, I did not start out to go 4X4 bashing and never will they have their place as does every other towing vehicle.
------------- Bill
For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013
Interesting topic, as some others have said it seems to bring out the anti 4 x 4 brigade.
As soon as someone posts an accident or overturned caravan the anti's start referring to 4 x 4's. Like other posts on here I have a 4 x 4 and been driving over 40 years, caravanning over 25 years and only ever seen two overturned caravans, one was on the autoroute in France and pulled by a VW Sharan people carrier, the other oddly also in France by a Volvo Estate.
Two days ago I returned from my annual holiday to South of France and covered nearly two thousand towing miles with my twin axle Elddis and Audi Q7 4 x 4. All properly loaded and the drive was smooth as silk, however on occasions I was passed by some caravans doing easily in excess of 80 mph /85 mph. They were totally oblivious that the back of their van was swaying about like a horse's tail , some were heavily nose down. None of these were 4 x 4 drivers, they were normal saloon cars and one Vauxhall Zafira, I might add there were some 4 x 4's doing this sort of speed but their vans were normally twin axles and not swaying all over the place.
The point that I am trying to make is that most 4 x 4 owners have these cars for pulling bigger van's and to get the weight van/car ratio correct.
It would seem most of the critic's of 4 x 4's have never actually towed with one, When I had my single axle vans I used to tow them with my normal car at the time, the last single axle I had that I towed with was a Ford Galaxy.
In my opinion in all the vans I have owned and all the cars I have towed with, my 4 x 4 is the best, safest and most capable towcar I have ever towed with and ideal for my twin axle.
Perhaps other than presumptions, could one of the anti's show me some official stats on the type of towcars and caravan combinations that have caused these accidents to validate their point, I would love to read it.
I think there is a fair point on both sides.
People who have 4x4's for a genuine reason are probaly safe drivers etc , I think it is noticed a lot more nowadays when a 4x4 goes up the road at 80mph because there is a lot more big 4x4's on the road these days that are fast as well as good off roaders.
A bit like bmw drivers etc etc.
My point about driving at 60mph was what I was told on my b+e test, you are expected to do 60mph and not hold up traffic and that I would fail the test for driving to slow.
Also any outfit that is not safe to do 60 shouldn't be on the motorway.
Surely a outfit should be more than capable of doing more than 60 without snakeing, if it snakes at 60 there is something wrong.
Quote: Originally posted by lunarvenus on 19/8/2013
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My point about driving at 60mph was what I was told on my b+e test, you are expected to do 60mph and not hold up traffic and that I would fail the test for driving to slow.
Also any outfit that is not safe to do 60 shouldn't be on the motorway.
Surely a outfit should be more than capable of doing more than 60 without snakeing, if it snakes at 60 there is something wrong.
Are hgv vehicles that has limiters set at less than 60 mph holding up traffic? You could fail your test for driving to slowly but too slowly implies that you are driving far more slowly than the main stream of traffic, not that you are failing to drive at the absolute limit for the road and your vehicle. I could not agree more that vehicles that are unsafe in any way should not be on the roads, but just because a driver chooses to drive a a speed just lower than the limit does not mean that the outfit will be unsafe at higher speeds. As I commented in the earlier message about this when it was suggested that we should drive at 60 mph so as to avoid being overtaken by waggons because such overtaking was causing instability, if overtaking waggons create any instability in the way the van tows then there is a problem with the combination. The combination should travel down the road with no movements of the towcar created by the caravan, and when overtaken by another vehicle of any sort their should be no movement of the outfit caused. If this is not the case then the driver is travelling too fast for the outfit, or alternatively he/she is driving a basically unstable unit.
------------- Bill
For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013
It appears that the accident took place just south of junction 4A. There is a long downhill bit before you reach the Droitwich turn off. There is a sign on the hill warning people towing caravans to be careful as this area is notorious for overturned caravans due to downhill, HGVs and cross winds combined.
Does not matter what u drive, If you drive like a pleb this might happen. Also could have been a HGV going past caused a wind gust and made it snake out.
Guess we will never know so best of stop bickering and drive safe
If 60 is the crucial figure for everything to suddenly be hugely dangerous over it, why can you tow up to 80mph in France?? (just as an example)
As to driving under the limit, and being overtaken by Lorrys, pish...
I was coming home on the A1 last weekend, following a truck, doing about 56mph, I then got overtaken by an arctic???
I usually stay doing a truck like 56mph, 1; I beleive its safer staying there than in/out all the time for the sake of an extra 4mph 2; I get better mpg like that rather than accellerating/decellerating to get round slightly faster trucks and 3; my landy is happier there.
I wouldnt do 80 towing, but there-again, I don't do 70 not towing either, my Fender just isn't made for it.
Quote: Originally posted by arcticfox on 20/8/2013
As they say, Slow and steady wins the race.
Does not matter what u drive, If you drive like a pleb this might happen. Also could have been a HGV going past caused a wind gust and made it snake out.
Guess we will never know so best of stop bickering and drive safe
As per the first message description from the driver immediately behind the caravan. the one who dialled 999 for assistance. Level road, little or no wind, caravan overtaking a waggon doing about 65mph, Jonathan just about to overtake the caravan, caravan starts to wobble Jonathan hangs back as does everyone else, snake gets progressively worse, about 500m down the road the caravan spins the car around and the two overturn, driver and all passengers get out of car safely. As I said at the beginning I can report exactly what appeared to happen but I was interested if the driver of the van read these forums and if so what his/her take on the incident was. Simple not interested in 4X4 bashing, not interested in conjecture about what vehicle was towing, not interested in other peoples conjecture about where the accident happened or what the possible cause could have been.
------------- Bill
For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013
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Topic: Is this you
