The vat is correct but I think it is law that electricity cannot be resold ie on a campsite meter for more than the campsite owner pays for it. Electricity is unit is kWh. An online search tells me average UK cost is about 18p/kWh but there are also standing charges I think. Power bills are complicated to work out.
Campsite owner should be happy to discuss this with you. It is possible he does not know the rules & is getting it wrong. You could also contact Ofgem.
It makes interesting reading and also makes it obvious why most sites wrap it up in the pitch fee so that they can charge what they want. Those sites that charge a fixed amount for electricity as an additional charge to the pitch fee could be on walking on thin ice.
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Quote: Originally posted by billy on 03/4/2021
The vat is correct but I think it is law that electricity cannot be resold ie on a campsite meter for more than the campsite owner pays for it. Electricity is unit is kWh. An online search tells me average UK cost is about 18p/kWh but there are also standing charges I think. Power bills are complicated to work out.
Campsite owner should be happy to discuss this with you. It is possible he does not know the rules & is getting it wrong. You could also contact Ofgem.
Post last edited on 03/04/2021 08:15:04
The site owner is only allowed to charge you for the cost of the unit and not the standing charge. The standing charge on relates to one single meter supplied by the electric supplier. The other sub-meters for each pitch would have been installed by the owner of the site therefore no standing charges.
I agree that 25p a unit is very steep and think the OP is being ripped off. The issue here is if you challenge the site owner and demand to see what they pay per unit, the site owner asks you to leave so you are in a way snookered. By the same token if you do challenge them and they do evict you they are leaving themselves wide open to being used in a civil court for damages and also a huge fine from the Energy Ombudsman.
Welcome to UKCS, Steverton.
I’d have thought the electric charging process was covered in the contract that you read & signed. All utility bills are going up this month, I think - are you sure it’s VAT that’s now being added? Maybe the site was VAT exempt before but has to pay VAT now? I’m just guessing....
However, there seems to be more demand for pitches this year, so I’d be a bit cautious about picking an argument with the site owner. Again, the contract would state any grounds for eviction.
Quote: Originally posted by Fiona W on 03/4/2021
Welcome to UKCS, Steverton.
I’d have thought the electric charging process was covered in the contract that you read & signed. All utility bills are going up this month, I think - are you sure it’s VAT that’s now being added? Maybe the site was VAT exempt before but has to pay VAT now? I’m just guessing....
However, there seems to be more demand for pitches this year, so I’d be a bit cautious about picking an argument with the site owner. Again, the contract would state any grounds for eviction.
Legislation over rides any contract and the OP should not be paying more per unit that the owner pays per unit.
It makes interesting reading and also makes it obvious why most sites wrap it up in the pitch fee so that they can charge what they want. Those sites that charge a fixed amount for electricity as an additional charge to the pitch fee could be on walking on thin ice.
Ive seen, and used loads of sites where the leccy is an optional extra at £x per night. Usually a couple of quid or so. For what we use, they cannot possibly be making a bean on us, personally.
Most sites these days charge for an electric pitch rather than on how much you use. This is simply a way of getting round the legislation which states that they cannot charge more for electricity than they pay for it themselves. Typically sites charge between £3 and £6 extra per night for an "electric pitch" as opposed to one without electricity.
In 2019 we confirmed how much of a rip-off this is when we spent two weeks on a site in Somerset that had individually metered electricity. We only use electricity to power our mains-only fridge and our battery charger, plus the occasional use of a small electric camping kettle when we can't be bothered with putting our usual larger kettle on the gas hob. For the whole of our two-week stay we used £2.80 worth of electricity!
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 03/4/2021
Most sites these days charge for an electric pitch rather than on how much you use. This is simply a way of getting round the legislation which states that they cannot charge more for electricity than they pay for it themselves. Typically sites charge between £3 and £6 extra per night for an "electric pitch" as opposed to one without electricity.
In 2019 we confirmed how much of a rip-off this is when we spent two weeks on a site in Somerset that had individually metered electricity. We only use electricity to power our mains-only fridge and our battery charger, plus the occasional use of a small electric camping kettle when we can't be bothered with putting our usual larger kettle on the gas hob. For the whole of our two-week stay we used £2.80 worth of electricity!
I think i would baulk at six quid a night, Colin. Three maybe, but as ive said, we dont stint, especially in the cooler months. We have fridge, hot water, battery charger, blown heating, the wifes hairdryer and straighteners, kettle, toaster internet devices. I could go on. I dont know why some feel the need to be frugal when camping. Unless thats how they usually live their lives.
This can be tricky for a site owner. Charges to him might be very complicated to dissect and spread around the pitches.
The supply may feed pool, bar, restaurant, laundry, reception, his house or even a whole farm.
The DNO who provide the supply cables etc to the site will have charged him to provide them.
A larger supply will have a use of system charge going to the DNO in addition to the unit charge to the supplier. Also a meter operator charge.
There may be a maximum demand charge or MD being the max used in any half hour period. each month.
Could be half hourly metering with tariffs varying by time of day to reflect demand.
Could be a power factor charge.
Then:
There will be losses in the cables feeding caravans and this will vary depending on the power flowing through each section of cable. This could be 5% at peak times or much less at low demand times.
He has to recover the cost of maintaining the distribution equipment etc feeding your pitch and has to recover cost of installing it all in the first place.
As a seasonal pitch you won't be there all the time. Typically there will be huge use in school hols and virtually nothing for several months a year.
Out of all this the actual cost per unit is a fairly small proportion.
So to me 25p per unit sounds very cheap.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 03/4/2021
Most sites these days charge for an electric pitch rather than on how much you use. This is simply a way of getting round the legislation which states that they cannot charge more for electricity than they pay for it themselves. Typically sites charge between £3 and £6 extra per night for an "electric pitch" as opposed to one without electricity.
In 2019 we confirmed how much of a rip-off this is when we spent two weeks on a site in Somerset that had individually metered electricity. We only use electricity to power our mains-only fridge and our battery charger, plus the occasional use of a small electric camping kettle when we can't be bothered with putting our usual larger kettle on the gas hob. For the whole of our two-week stay we used £2.80 worth of electricity!
I think i would baulk at six quid a night, Colin. Three maybe, but as ive said, we dont stint, especially in the cooler months. We have fridge, hot water, battery charger, blown heating, the wifes hairdryer and straighteners, kettle, toaster internet devices. I could go on. I dont know why some feel the need to be frugal when camping. Unless thats how they usually live their lives.
When we book a site we always go by the total cost, including electric. We tend not to consider electricity as a separate cost on sites which don't have metered electricity, so if the cost of a pitch was still reasonable with electricity included we would still book it. However, if we could find a site with metered electric we would always go for it. We haven't found many though.
We don't use much in mid-summer when we usually go, but if we are going away when the nights are likely to be chilly, we do take an electric convector heater with us.
I do find that even £3 a night is excessive though, as we don't use that at home in summer, even including gas. Our house is very well insulated so we don't spend much more than £3 a day for electricity and gas combined even in mid-winter. Our house is always warm and cosy and we certainly don't skimp.
Our hot water in the caravan is gas, we use our grill for toast, and we don't take a TV with us on holiday, as we probably watch far too much at home and it's nice to get away from it. We do sometimes take a laptop on holiday but we don't use it much, only really for looking up places to visit, and we usually charge phones in the car when we go out. We are out far more than we are in the caravan anyway unless the weather's bad. As for hair straighteners and a dryer, my wife does have them but she doesn't really use them much at home. She prefers to let her hair dry naturally. I certainly don't need a hair dryer, as what little I've got left has dried naturally by the time I've finished dressing.
Quote: Originally posted by navver on 03/4/2021
This can be tricky for a site owner. Charges to him might be very complicated to dissect and spread around the pitches.
The supply may feed pool, bar, restaurant, laundry, reception, his house or even a whole farm.
The DNO who provide the supply cables etc to the site will have charged him to provide them.
A larger supply will have a use of system charge going to the DNO in addition to the unit charge to the supplier. Also a meter operator charge.
There may be a maximum demand charge or MD being the max used in any half hour period. each month.
Could be half hourly metering with tariffs varying by time of day to reflect demand.
Could be a power factor charge.
Then:
There will be losses in the cables feeding caravans and this will vary depending on the power flowing through each section of cable. This could be 5% at peak times or much less at low demand times.
He has to recover the cost of maintaining the distribution equipment etc feeding your pitch and has to recover cost of installing it all in the first place.
As a seasonal pitch you won't be there all the time. Typically there will be huge use in school hols and virtually nothing for several months a year.
Out of all this the actual cost per unit is a fairly small proportion.
So to me 25p per unit sounds very cheap.
5% VAT sounds right if he is registered for VAT.
Nothing I would argue with there Navver, but it's clear some sites can manage it. The site we went on in Somerset was very reasonably priced, £16 a night plus metered electricity for a really lovely secluded pitch with a hedge either side, our own water supply and drainage, and recycling collected daily from the pitches. They consider the first two weeks in July, when we went, to be low season. High season only seemed to be school holidays. I don't think they charge any more than £20 a night even now for the same pitches at the same time of year. If they can do it.............
It makes interesting reading and also makes it obvious why most sites wrap it up in the pitch fee so that they can charge what they want. Those sites that charge a fixed amount for electricity as an additional charge to the pitch fee could be on walking on thin ice.
Examples 4, 5 and 8b seem to be the pertinent ones.
I'm with Colin on this.
We look at what they offer, and the total price for us. Breakdown of the costs don't particularly come in to it.
Happy to pay £5 per shower (x 2 people per day) if the total remains acceptable. (We never have. That's just a wild example!)
It does appear from our experience that we tend to pay an average of £4pn for electric Hook Up.
When we first started, a favourite site of ours charged £18 inc electric, before we started camping with electric. There was no reduction for us not using electric hook up. It was still a favourite, and we were happy to pay that £18 for that particular site.
Having said that, we have been on metred electric before, and paid something like £3.60 for 3 nights in October, which with the cold and dark evenings drawing in, that included our 1500W heater being on a good 6/7 hours a day, plus the kettle being on more than it was off!
Amazing family weekend with old steam engines, classic car displays, market stalls, and full catering and bar. And camping on site - Save £25 by booking in advance.
Topic: Metered electric
via mobile 02/4/2021 at 10:59pm
