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Subject Topic: Metered electric
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Message posted by iank0104/4/2021 at 7:28am
Outfit:  Buccaneer Cruiser     Location:  Worcestershire
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Quote: Originally posted by navver on 03/4/2021

Then:
There will be losses in the cables feeding caravans and this will vary depending on the power flowing through each section of cable. This could be 5% at peak times or much less at low demand times.

He has to recover the cost of maintaining the distribution equipment etc feeding your pitch and has to recover cost of installing it all in the first place.

As a seasonal pitch you won't be there all the time. Typically there will be huge use in school hols and virtually nothing for several months a year.

Out of all this the actual cost per unit is a fairly small proportion.
So to me 25p per unit sounds very cheap.

5% VAT sounds right if he is registered for VAT.



If he is including all the above in the charge of 25p a unit then the site owner is acting illegally unless they have a supplier's licence.
The loss is calculated by the distribution company and not the supplier and is part of the make up of the MPAN number. The loss figure for the loss is the digits 6, 7 & 8 of the MPAN number.
The cabling, metering etc should be included in the cost of he pitch and not the unit.

Message posted by JTQU04/4/2021 at 4:42pm
Outfit:  Hymer Nova S      Location:  Hampshire
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Its very difficult to judge if the site is over charging or not, and all a bit pointless looking at typical domestic electricity energy rates and basing a judgement on those.
The site, unless possibly a 5 van site will be paying commercial electricity rates and not for a single phase domestic supply but a three phase supply.
Plus, it is quite possible their tariff floats with the time of day and peak current draw, and can be high compared to a domestic rate.

Re the VAT, the VAT rate on electricity is 5% so that is clearly correctly billed.

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Message posted by Mick S.04/4/2021 at 4:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 03/4/2021


Our hot water in the caravan is gas, we use our grill for toast, and we don't take a TV with us on holiday, as we probably watch far too much at home and it's nice to get away from it. We do sometimes take a laptop on holiday but we don't use it much, only really for looking up places to visit, and we usually charge phones in the car when we go out.



Is that the van, or your choice to use gas for cooking and heating? We only use the gas for the oven and hobs - mainly hobs. If im paying a fixed price for leccy, im getting my moneys worth!

Message posted by iank0104/4/2021 at 5:18pm
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Quote: Originally posted by JTQU on 04/4/2021
Its very difficult to judge if the site is over charging or not, and all a bit pointless looking at typical domestic electricity energy rates and basing a judgement on those.
The site, unless possibly a 5 van site will be paying commercial electricity rates and not for a single phase domestic supply but a three phase supply.
Plus, it is quite possible their tariff floats with the time of day and peak current draw, and can be high compared to a domestic rate.

Re the VAT, the VAT rate on electricity is 5% so that is clearly correctly billed.



Many CLs use one phase off a three phase supply for their electric which keeps price of unit down. Larger sites with statics normally use Half Hourly power which can be lower in price than a normal domestic supply. Others would use three phase power. At 25p a unnit in thsi day and age definitely a rip off!

Message posted by navver04/4/2021 at 7:36pm
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 04/4/2021
If he is including all the above in the charge of 25p a unit then the site owner is acting illegally unless they have a supplier's licence.
The loss is calculated by the distribution company and not the supplier and is part of the make up of the MPAN number. The loss figure for the loss is the digits 6, 7 & 8 of the MPAN number.
The cabling, metering etc should be included in the cost of he pitch and not the unit.




He can charge that amount but has to be able to justify it.

The losses I referred to are those in the sites system so between the incoming site meter and the pitch meter, not the DNOs losses.


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Message posted by Colin2104/4/2021 at 10:58pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Mick S. on 04/4/2021
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 03/4/2021


Our hot water in the caravan is gas, we use our grill for toast, and we don't take a TV with us on holiday, as we probably watch far too much at home and it's nice to get away from it. We do sometimes take a laptop on holiday but we don't use it much, only really for looking up places to visit, and we usually charge phones in the car when we go out.



Is that the van, or your choice to use gas for cooking and heating? We only use the gas for the oven and hobs - mainly hobs. If im paying a fixed price for leccy, im getting my moneys worth!



I'm with you all the way there Mick, if I'm paying for electric anyway, and not on metered electric, I will use it for all that I can.

However, as ours is an old caravan our water heater is gas only so we don't have a choice there. We have a gas heater but don't use it much, mainly because we only tend to go away when the weather is warm enough during the day. If it's likely to be chilly at night though we use an electric convector heater. No way would I leave a gas heater on overnight, and if I'm paying for an electric pitch anyway........

Regarding kettles, we have a small electric camping kettle but it doesn't hold much so we tend to mainly use it when we want small cups. If we want a decent mug of coffee or tea, or if there's more than the two of us, we use our large kettle on the hob.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin

Message posted by iank0105/4/2021 at 10:25am
Outfit:  Buccaneer Cruiser     Location:  Worcestershire
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Quote: Originally posted by navver on 04/4/2021
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 04/4/2021
If he is including all the above in the charge of 25p a unit then the site owner is acting illegally unless they have a supplier's licence.
The loss is calculated by the distribution company and not the supplier and is part of the make up of the MPAN number. The loss figure for the loss is the digits 6, 7 & 8 of the MPAN number.
The cabling, metering etc should be included in the cost of he pitch and not the unit.




He can charge that amount but has to be able to justify it.

The losses I referred to are those in the sites system so between the incoming site meter and the pitch meter, not the DNOs losses.





Sorry that is incorrect. The site owner is only allowed to charge the same as what they pay per unit. They cannot add on anything extra as that is against the law and they can be prosecuted. Metering and wiring after the main meter is the responsibility of the site owner. Losses would be negligible in the grand scheme of things. I worked in the industry for many years.

Message posted by Colin2105/4/2021 at 11:15am
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 05/4/2021
Quote: Originally posted by navver on 04/4/2021
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 04/4/2021
If he is including all the above in the charge of 25p a unit then the site owner is acting illegally unless they have a supplier's licence.
The loss is calculated by the distribution company and not the supplier and is part of the make up of the MPAN number. The loss figure for the loss is the digits 6, 7 & 8 of the MPAN number.
The cabling, metering etc should be included in the cost of he pitch and not the unit.




He can charge that amount but has to be able to justify it.

The losses I referred to are those in the sites system so between the incoming site meter and the pitch meter, not the DNOs losses.





Sorry that is incorrect. The site owner is only allowed to charge the same as what they pay per unit. They cannot add on anything extra as that is against the law and they can be prosecuted. Metering and wiring after the main meter is the responsibility of the site owner. Losses would be negligible in the grand scheme of things. I worked in the industry for many years.



That is why most sites these days don't charge for electricity, they charge for an electric pitch. That way they can charge whatever they like as you are not paying for the amount of electricity you use, you are paying to have the facility available.


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Best Regards,
Colin


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