I bought a Bailey Senator Carolina for £5800 aged 2006 6 weeks ago private sale off Facebook. The advert had no mention of damp or any items not working or needing attention but in good working order. I could not check anything was working as a private sale with no electric hook up and no gas. I asked for a receipt to state everything is working, when I picked it up the receipt said sold as seen no warranty, so I added everything working before signing. The service found fridge doesn't work, battery needs replacing, grill doesn't work, heating only work on electric, front 3 windows need replacing, it has high readings of damp throughout, the tyres need replacing and there is no socket for the wheel locking nuts!
The initial advert was pulled before I could gain a copy. The seller offered to fix the fridge and grill, he refused a refund so I've sent a letter giving 14 days to respond asking for a refund with the report attached. The recorded letter has not been signed for.
I'm really sorry but as this was a private sale there is not really a lot you can do. Private sales do not have anything like the same protections as if you had bought it from a dealer. It is extremely unlikely that he is legally obliged to give you a refund as in a private sale the onus is on the buyer to check the item thoroughly before buying. There is a slight possibility that if the advert was found to be deliberately misleading then you may have a claim for misrepresentation against the seller, but simply omitting to mention faults with the caravan in the advert is not going to be enough to take to court, the seller would have needed to actually lie about the condition, age or specification of the caravan for a civil claim to be successful. Also, by writing "everything working" on the receipt yourself, you may actually harm any case you try to bring as it may be inferred that you have checked everything and found it working, if the seller had written this it may have worked in your favour. I am sorry if this is not what you want to read but with private sales it is very much a case of caveat emptor
Other than contacting a solicitor, I don't think there is much you can do if it was a genuine private sale. Very much a case of buyer beware I'm afraid. What may be worth looking at is whether it was actually a private sale or a back-street dealer. Often the latter will try to pretend they are a private seller because they know that the law offers buyers much greater protection if they are buying from a dealer. With a private sale there is little you can do unless you can prove that the item sold (the caravan) was deliberately misrepresented.
It's my understanding that a seller doesn't have to state the faults, they just can't misrepresent the item. Is there any way of getting a copy of the ad, to confirm how it was worded??
You say you purchased the van 6 weeks ago. Have you only just approached the seller? If so, why the delay? It's likely the seller could claim things have gone wrong during your ownership, since a month and a half has elapsed.
Did you not notice clouding of the front windows on viewing the van? Did the van have a musty smell? Did you thoroughly check in all cupboards, under bench seats etc?
I'm guessing all you can do is go down the Small Claims Court route, but previous threads on here suggest that's not always successful even if you win the case.
Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me. The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.
Quote: Originally posted by KWaite on 01/5/2022
Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me. The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.
Your last sentence suggest there may be more hope. It is beginning to sound like the seller may in fact be a back-street dealer, which gives you much more chance of getting your money back. If you can provide evidence that this isn't the only caravan they have sold recently, it may be worth taking it further. If others have bought off him it probably wasn't a private sale at all. Maybe the service company could help in that respect.
Quote: Originally posted by KWaite on 01/5/2022
Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me. The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.
Your last sentence suggest there may be more hope. It is beginning to sound like the seller may in fact be a back-street dealer, which gives you much more chance of getting your money back. If you can provide evidence that this isn't the only caravan they have sold recently, it may be worth taking it further. If others have bought off him it probably wasn't a private sale at all. Maybe the service company could help in that respect.
So the engineer who serviced your van said he's twice inspected other vans being sold by this seller, at his/her address?
Data protection might well mean he can't confirm this in writing, unless his other clients agree, but it's surely worth contacting the engineer in this respect.
Keep an eye open for any other vans being sold by this seller, at this address. Maybe even ask him to confirm whether he's a private seller or a trader, since you've discovered other caravans have recently been sold from his address. If he is a backstreet trader, he won't want exposing.
What did the seller agree in respect of the fridge and the grill? Do you have his response in writing?
To be fair, I suspect you'll not get far with this. We once bought a van from a private seller who came across as totally legit, said he had certain spare (out of stock) parts on order so would arrange for them to be sent to our address when available. They never arrived and he ignored all emails and telephone calls.
There are unscrupulous people our there, it really is a case of caveat emptor.
Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you
Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 01/5/2022
Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you
I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.
If the ad never mentioned damp then there is very little you can do as it is a private sale so a case of "Buyer Beware". Unlikely that a verbal comment stating no damp will be accepted. If the ad stated everything working then there could be a case under the Misrepresentation Act 1967.
However you need to show proof of the ad stating everything in working order and also if you can show proof that the individual is selling caravans as a business, it is a criminal offence and they will be prosecuted. Also HM Revenue and Customs would be very interested. I wonder if the person selling these caravans pretending to be an individual is claiming any benefits?
We got caught like that and someone on here gave us a link where it showed that the person who lived in Birmingham was selling at least one caravan a month. We handed it over to Trading Standards who then investigated to bring criminal charges against the seller.
Another way could be to collate proof that they have sold several caravans in the past year and then mention to the seller that you think they are a business pretending to be an individual and that you are going to take it up with Trading Standards unless they give you a full refund immediately when you return the caravan, but be very careful.
Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 01/5/2022
Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you
I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.
That is were you are probably wrong. We had the issue of non payment after a small claims court issue so handed it over to the bailiffs. They added their fees to the claim costing us nothing.
We got the full amount due and the defendant had to pay the bailiff fess. Later found out that the bailiffs had attached his pride and joy, a Jaguar XJ6.
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/5/2022
I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.
That is were you are probably wrong. We had the issue of non payment after a small claims court issue so handed it over to the bailiffs. They added their fees to the claim costing us nothing.
We got the full amount due and the defendant had to pay the bailiff fess. Later found out that the bailiffs had attached his pride and joy, a Jaguar XJ6.
Depends on the circumstances. In my first case the person that owed me money claimed that he had no money. I knew him and that was probably right. He did agree to pay me a tiny amount monthly, which I accepted. He paid me for a couple of months then stopped. To get any more I would have to have taken him back to court with probably a repeat of the above. I didn't bother.
The second case was quite the opposite. I knew that he was a millionaire, probably several times over. However, it turned out that on paper he had absolutely nothing. Everything was either owned by various limited companies or in his wife or son's name. Consequently there was nothing to seize. Apparently he was well known locally and had done similar to nearly every small business locally. He was a truly accomplished expert in such activities. If only I'd known, but I was a newcomer on the small business scene at the time and relatively new to the area.
If you gather sufficient evidence that he is “a trader” and you are unable to get any recompense then report him to HMRC as I doubt that he is paying any tax on the profits he is making. Spiteful I know but might make you feel better and stop any further sales.
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Topic: Miss Sold - Help please
via mobile 01/5/2022 at 11:18am
